We are thankful to Ms. Cat Saunders for the following interview. (See her website at http://www.drcat.org/articles_interviews/html/DeepDemocracy.html.) Though the time of this interview was 1994, and although some of our answers might be different today, the essence of our approaches to world issues has remained the same.

Because of professional ethics, we can’t report on details of work done with private and public organizations. However we can report on our learning experiences. A consistent experience is the repeated insight; for the world to progress, all of us need to learn how we use our rank. Those with less social rank must have more (and not just equal) social and psychological awareness compared to that of those with higher social rank for the world to transform. Those with lower rank realize inequities.

Their knowledge about rank can be disturbing to those who have a lot of it. Awakening others to their rank is important but can be terrifying. To change the world, everyone, but especially those without social rank need to use his or her awareness courageously and with more consciousness in order to create sustainable change. Love and Power like all ghosts are nonlocal communication potentials. When used with consciousness, they can be transformative.

Note to those wishing to be leaders: (written during the 2004 US Presidential campaign)

Dear Ms or Mr. President to be:
IN RELATIONSHIP WE TRUST

To win the election and the hearts of the world, connect not only to the voters but also to that half of the nation that does not vote. Those fifty percent are your gold mine. Speak to that half in all of us. Say the following: [more ...]

To the USA AND ITS ALLIES, we appreciate the creation of a new, higher building at the site of Ground Zero, the place of the terrorist attack in Manhattan. We understand that this building may be the highest. This project is symbolic; we understand that it is meant to give hope and renewed sense of value to all who have suffered under attacks. In addition, we would like to suggest another symbol. A building that is round and flat at the top, not necessarily tall and peaked. Such a building could be named, " The ROUND TABLE AT GROUND ZERO".

" ROUND TABLE" symbolizes a new purpose for the building; awareness practice and research into dialogue and diversity. This new meaning for "Ground Zero" would show the U.S.'s desire of holding to the center in conflict, to the "zero" so to speak. In our minds, we would like the US to be proud of its consciousness, not only its strength; of its eldership and not only its power.

To TERRORISTS and FREEDOM FIGHTERS. Many have advised us not to speak with you as if you were not human.

These are tense times for all. We are all living in and trying to recuperate from trauma. If you can, please listen - even though we are from the US. At the same time that the US and her allies are trying to do the above, we dream that you too will make more use of consciousness. We understand you are saying that the US is dominating and imperialistic. However, no one has ever overcome imperialism without having a model of how to do it. We know that to reduce imperialism, you must consider that is an outer and inner reality. Therefore, to model a new world, you must reduce imperialism by refusing to extend power or authority over innocent "others" in the interests of domination. We must all do that. We must all fight the dominating tendencies of hopelessness, depression, and the ecstatic intoxication of revenge and power. Then a real change will have occurred.

DEAR FRIENDS everywhere. Governments can only fulfill our highest dreams internationally if we can. Every world leader comes from a family. Every family member interacts with others. Realizing this, let's all study, learn and work together by exploring each and every tense relationship moment. If you want the world to change, show it how. Let no difficult moment pass in friendships, family, group, cultures and world. If needed, stop conflict and potential violence. Remember, that's only a first step. The next step it to understand where it comes from, its essence. Finally let's learn from history and the oldest lessons. Whatever is forbidden today, reappears tomorrow. Differences that are not valued today become the wars of tomorrow. Center yourself in awareness of the dialogue process, and not only in one side or another. And then show and ask the world to do the same. Thank you.

Though we, amy and arny, were speaking about process work with our Tokyo friends, they seemed to curve space and time transforming all that happened into a kind of Zen teaching, creating a kind of Japanese process work which is part of Asia. We were thrilled in our supervision work to encounter the beginnings of an open forum and relationship work between Korea and Japan, moving with facilitators into --and in a rare moment, through -- the essence of the history of war.

Late April 2004

Using the Hanoi Cinema in South Moscow as a seminar venue, we explored quantum physics and the future of psychology and spirituality with many hundreds of people from everywhere in today's central Russia, Baltic states and Siberia. What a pleasure it was to discover the many different ways in which process ideas are being integrated into different aspects of Russian culture.

April 2004

April 2004

April 2004

Amy and Arny were witnesses to the most extraordinary experience in which process work communities from Ireland and the UK, interacted around process work, and the influence of history upon our inter-relationships. In our public seminar we explored issues around colonialism, terrorism, and around religion.

April 8th, 2004

In a 2003 News article, "Salt Lake City : Working with Mormon-Non-Mormon Tensions," we spoke of a significant worldwork process in Salt Lake City Utah, 2003. When we saw the following article in the New York Times, we imagined the news might have been possibly connected with that fall, 2003 experience in Salt Lake where a small but central piece of agonizing Mormon history was processed. In any case, the news made us hopeful that understanding around religious conflicts can occur. Understanding in one place, may mean more understanding for all.

Download the article

March 20, 2004

From: Tamara Scarlett-Lyon
Subject: "peace march"?

...We went to the Seattle March and estimates of participants range from 5000-15,000 (i am guessing 8-10,000). The crowd seemed to me to be more diverse this year but that's just my sense of it. (also seemed to be more young people this time which I liked seeing). The most articulate and thoughtful speakers were various vets who expressed a pretty deep understanding of compassion and complexity of issues. My son (14) was a "peacekeeper" for the 1st time (to fulfill community service requirements for his school) and did some training prior to the event and i was happy to see arny's info on Rank and Privilege included in his training material.

My husband was also a "peacekeeper" and ended up in the middle of a hotspot between a neo-Nazi group that was quietly protesting at the edge of the event and "peaceful" protesters who began loudly and hatefully verbally abusing the neo-Nazi's... pretty intense but gradually the atmosphere cooled off with no physical violence other than "peace" people throwing bagels at the neo-nazis...

As usual I found myself walking along with mixed feelings- wanting to be counted as one who is dissatisfied w/ US policy and leadership (and wishing more people were there with us), but also feeling very uneasy with the signs and name-calling that were mean-spirited and blaming. But touched by all the range of people who were there and curious about each person's
story... also wondering what would happen if people with different views sat together and looked at each other w/ openness and compassion and really listened...

March 2004

The two hundred and fifty people and 29 different countries represented at the worldwork conference in Newport created one of the deepest community experiences we have as yet experienced with so many diverse peoples working on a whole world of issues.

Link to the newspaper article

January 2004

Aspects of Working With the Dreaming Body are being contracted by director, Kyzsztof Warlikowski and Robert Redford's Sundance Theater Institute. (The Sundance Institute is Redford's non profit organization "for filmmakers, writers, playwrights, actors, composers that will best realize new talent in an atmosphere of support, collaboration, freedom of expression and freedom to experiment... and ....is guided by the primary aim of supporting artists whose work reflects an original, compelling vision".